Dave Ramsey and the Dissolution of Christian Stewardship

I stumbled into Christian Stewardship quite by accident. It was not on my list of interests or career choices, but as you know yourself, following God is not like mapping out the shortest route on your GPS. I have never been the smartest guy around, but I do know how to learn, so I set out to learn about stewardship.

As a child I learned to tithe from my father. It was never a legalistic type of thing where you have to give a tenth or else God will be mad. It was just something we did. I never gave it much thought – until I found myself (as I said, quite by accident) working as a stewardship professional. In fact, I even received an award (complete with a very nice plaque) as the “Stewardship Professional of the Year.” I am a good learner.

The stewardship thing worked out well for me and for a time I was one of the leading stewardship folks in the country. I have written material that has been used in thousands of churches around the world. There was a period of time when every stewardship item in the Southern Baptist world had my fingerprint on it somewhere.Ramsey House

There have been a couple of significant changes to stewardship during my lifetime. When I was a child, it was quite common to believe in tithing. However, during my teenage years there was a movement to change that position. People began to teach that tithing is legalistic and it is much more consistent with Jesus to be generous without specific guidelines. Tithing fell out of favor with many.

I remember well my introduction into this new world. It was at a small gathering of stewardship folks. I had already had a part in developing some material encouraging folks to be tithers. One of the men at this gathering was Cecil Ray, known by many Southern Baptists as the father of Baptist stewardship. I didn’t know him personally but I was well-aware of his reputation.

Early in the meeting, Dr. Ray referred to those who taught tithing as “legalists.” Out of respect and deference I kept my mouth shut. (If you know me personally you probably don’t believe that last statement.) During a break in the meeting I told my supervisor if that old man calls me a legalist one more time we are going after it. He advised patience and keeping quiet.

I had the privilege of working with Dr. Ray several years later, after he retired, helping his church raise money in a building campaign. He was very gracious, even complimentary after I preached a sermon on tithing. I will hasten to say that even though he was not an advocate of tithing, I’m not sure I have ever met a more generous man. He gave significantly more than ten percent to his church.

However, this article is not about the tithe. The subject concerns another cosmic shift in stewardship teaching by the church; one that will have a devastating effect.

About halfway through my time of working in stewardship there was a new interest in teaching money management. Church leaders concluded that one of the reasons people did not give generously to the church was because the desperate condition of their finances made it impossible. I saw the value of this approach and joined the parade by adding a financial management component to our material.

It got out of control. It got to the point that churches were only interested in teaching people how to handle their finances. Christian programs consisted of little more than quoting a few Bible verses in between guidelines for spending, saving, investing, and budgeting. The logical next step was to focus on getting out of debt – trusting that once people were out of debt they would be generous givers.

Along came Dave Ramsey. Perhaps his biggest strength is the ability to make money. He took the “get out of debt” mantra to new heights, found a way to make money from helping folks get out of debt, and took the church stewardship world by storm. Churches quickly abandoned traditional stewardship teaching in favor of “Financial Peace.”

I stumbled across an example of how extreme this approach became during my last year of leading church stewardship. A church, wanting to raise several million dollars for new construction, decided to forego traditional appeals to giving. Instead, they enrolled 500 families in Ramsey’s course. Their rationale was that they would save the cost of fund-raising activities and consultation and when these families got out of debt they would give generously to the building program. They were excited that Ramsey himself was going to come and speak to their congregation.

Genius for Ramsey; not so well thought out by the church. Ramsey would make about $50,000 selling material and for a one-time sermon. My experience with fund-raising is that the folks who are going to make a multi-million dollar campaign successful are not in debt (at least, not consumer debt). Another thing I learned over the years is that getting out of debt does not make people generous givers.

The real problem is that Christians have anointed Ramsey as the stewardship sage and essentially redefined stewardship teaching as good money management, or more narrowly as getting out of debt. The result is that we have made Dave Ramsey wealthy and robbed the church of an important doctrine – stewardship. It is probably accurate to say that the vast majority of churches that deliberately teach stewardship do it through a Dave Ramsey course.

Historically, biblical stewardship has led the church to take positions that are no longer considered to be Christian positions:

  • Environment – stewardship education used to teach the value of taking care of the earth. Now, most evangelical Christians stand in opposition to environmental initiatives under the guise that they might harm the economy.
  • Accumulation – for centuries the church taught the danger of having too much. Now, the emphasis seems to be on accumulating more and more because it is good for the economy.
  • Responsibility – taking care of one another has always been a Christian focus. Now, many Christians complain about those who don’t or can’t take care of themselves and voice strong opposition to welfare and healthcare programs that give help to others.

When the leaders of a church stewardship movement become wealthy something is wrong. If there is any area of church ministry that should stand firm against wealth it should be stewardship.

Keep deception and lies far from me, Give me neither poverty nor riches; Feed me with the food that is my portion, that I not be full and deny You and say, “Who is the LORD?” Or That I not be in want and steal, And profane the name of my God. (Proverbs 30:7-8)

And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)

It is a much too common problem with anyone in church leadership. If they are truly well-received they are then confronted with the temptations of money and fame. It is hard to say “no” to either one of these opportunities. We love to turn our leaders into celebrities. When that happens, the focus is diverted to the leader and not Jesus.

It may be true (I don’t know) that churches have more money than ever and that Christian families are leading the march in financial planning. However, it doesn’t matter. That is not what stewardship is all about. Stewardship is not about wealth and accumulation. Church stewardship is not about large buildings and generous payrolls. Christian stewardship is learning to live with an open hand, not hanging onto the things of the world, but releasing them to be used by God and others.

Christian stewardship has very little to do with developing successful consumers. It is not the task of the church to teach people how to operate successfully in the world, but rather how to live successfully in a kingdom that is not of this world.

I suspect church history will eventually record that the American church in the early 21st century was prosperous, building multi-million dollar facilities and having the resources to provide entertainment and recreational extravaganzas. This is not surprising since the Pied Piper we are following is a national media celebrity living in a $6.5 million dollar mansion on a hill outside Nashville.

We have come a long way from the example of our founder who declared that he had “nowhere to lay his head” (Matthew 9:20) and did not even own a change of clothes.

If you are interested in my understanding of stewardship, get my book Authentic Stewardship.




Filed under Uncategorized

42 responses to “Dave Ramsey and the Dissolution of Christian Stewardship

  1. There is a great need for financial education in our country, for all students, not just Christians. Until that happens people are going to mismanage their finances and tithing will be avoided, because of lack of money, not desire. The church misses on this and so many other things that improvement is not on the horizon. I think the church should offer sound and basic financial workshops for their communities, not just Christians. Once taught, then they can offer financial wisdom for their congregation, from a Christian perspective.

    But it’s not an easy fix. The church as a whole must be integrated in the community, and that is not happening on a large scale.

    So, overall reform is needed. New thinking must create partnerships so that the church can once again regain its standing in the community.

  2. Well brother Terry, I was right with ya until you said, “Historically, biblical stewardship has led the church to take positions that are no longer considered to be Christian positions:”
    And then listed Environment, accumulation and responsibility. Not that you are totally incorrect about these areas, not at all. But its rather a broad brush you use to paint with. Or is it, with which you use to paint”? Anyway.
    Yes some people are anti-environment. But it is still the church’s position, for many churches anyway that we should be stewards of the environment. We just haven’t been sold on anthropogenic global warming. But polluting and abusing the earth is not what God intended. But what does ‘abusing’ entail is what at least part of the debate is about.
    Then there is accumulation. I agree! Not enough is said about this. Even though I have no rich people in my church (rich by, oh lets say, north central Texas standards) still, the desire to accumulate can be a big problem. You are correct!
    Then there’s responsibility, once again, this is still the church’s job. But as Jimmy Carter told us recently, you’re not much of a Christian if you have a problem paying your taxes to help the poor. What an insult. What does giving Caesar money to waste and misappropriate have to do with helping the poor? Helping the poor can be done without state interference. No, I’m not abdicating by state/fiscal duties. But neither do I praise the state for their inability to do it well. Churches should and often do help the poor.

    Now, does Dave Ramsey fail to teach these things? I don’t know. I hope he does.

    After that brief aside, I was back on track with you to the end!

    • The point is not whether Ramsey teaches this stuff or not, the point is that the main focus of what is being taught is striving to accumulate stuff. If we follow this teaching then we can own a house like his (see photo).

      Also, my point about Christians and the environment is that it has been turned into a political issue precisely because it is seen as something that impacts our wallet. Why is it more spiritual to deny global warming? Why are we more concerned with the cost of cleaning up the environment than with the necessity of taking care of the environment?

      • RicksAsylum

        I listened to Dave Ramsey on the radio for years and you could not be further from the truth about what I learned from him. The lessons offered up in ‘Financial Peace’ mostly center on NOT spending money you don’t have (no borrowing) and NOT buying things you can’t afford (less accumulating).

        I find it very interesting that you mention helping churches with ‘multi-million dollar’ fund raising campaigns and then say this “I suspect church history will eventually record that the American church in the early 21st century was prosperous, building multi-million dollar facilities and having the resources to provide entertainment and recreational extravaganzas.” like it’s a bad thing.

        I see many issues with the modern, American church but Ramsey teaching people not to fall into the trap of endless credit card debt and eventual bankruptcy is certainly not one of them.

  3. *No, I’m not abdicating MY state/fiscal duties

  4. RicksAsylum – If the most historical notes about the church are multi-million dollar facilities and elaborate extravaganzas then that is a bad thing! That is not what the church should be about and is contrary to the way Jesus lived. Also, in case you missed it, my concern with Ramsey’s teaching is that it leads individuals and families to the same end – having more is the goal. Just look at his own house (see photo). What he teaches is not biblical stewardship, it is money management. They are not the same thing. He is encouraging people to strive for wealth and throws around a few Bible verses to make it sound spiritual.

    • RicksAsylum

      Terry I don’t know you and I don’t mean to nit pick but I really don’t understand your position. Why would make a career out of helping churches raise money for huge, fancy buildings if you believe “That is not what the church should be about”

      As for Dave… I always found his show inspiring and motivating. Not because he taught me how to get rich (he didn’t) but because he taught me how to live on a budget, how to prioritize my spending and how to give with a joyful heart. In a nutshell that is the message of the Financial Peace seminar. Dave frequently stresses tithing as a necessary part of a household budget. Giving to others is one of the biggest motivators for becoming debt free. If you’re not wasting your paycheck on credit card interest you can enjoy, really enjoy, giving money where it’s needed.

  5. Larry Golden

    It is not Dave Ramsey’s fault that the church has not done its job of teaching Biblical Stewardship. I have not found anything in listening to David Ramsey that is not Biblical. His focus is on helping people get out of debt and live responsibility. You many not agree with some of his political views. I have only hear him say that the purpose of living with financial responsibility is the be able to give more. He always supports tithing. I have not heard the message of striving for wealth. I have heard the message of live in such away that allows you to get to the point that you can be a generous giver beyond the tithe. You are right he does teach personal money management but I have not heard anything that is not part of biblical stewardship.

    • We are taught from the Bible that our treasures are laid up in Heaven and that it will be difficult for a rich man to enter Heaven. And there are more lessons to learn as well. Dave Ramsey wants people to be successful at managing money. But that will just put us in bondage by taking our attention away from the centrality of Christ. That is far from the sort of “biblical” success that I want. In my mind, Larry Burkett of Christian Financial Concepts had it right before he passed away. We are not to serve money in any way, shape or form. Ramsey has found a niche in the Christian world and is nothing more than a businessman selling his goods and services. Certainly not an Ambassador of Christ by any stretch.

      • RicksAsylum

        Ramsey is addressing a crisis in American culture. Credit card debt is out of control in this country and the financial industry is doing their best to make it worse. I never heard Dave say that more is good and I listened for years. He teaches living within your means and supporting your church family. These are skills that many people desperately need to learn. The Depression Era wisdom of our grandparents is fading away and has been replaced by the Madison Ave lifestyle that says ‘happiness is just a second mortgage away!’ Bankrupt families make lousy tithers.

      • Here is the reality: Money does not provide for our needs, God does.

  6. Let’s not wander too far away from the original intent of the post. My current opinion about Christian stewardship has changed over the years. I did contribute to making it about money management, but I have learned the failings of that approach. The point of the article is that the church has bought into the Dave Ramsey approach and made stewardship nothing more than money management. It is not a good thing that we have found a good way to raise more money and buy bigger houses debt free. That is not Christian stewardship. It might be good consumerism but the problem is that it has become the church’s approach to stewardship. If you want a complete statement of my stewardship beliefs, check it out here – http://www.austinbrotherspublishing.com/Authenticdescrip.html

  7. JJS

    Interesting back-and-forth, but your positions all seem to be “either/or” between Christian stewardship and wise financial management. I would argue that it’s BOTH… in other words, good money management skills are extremely important and desperately needed in our current culture of spend, spend, spend, then borrow and spend some more. I completely agree that it is a crisis. This is a horrible problem that churches would be negligent not to address. RicksAsylum is correct on that point, and Dave Ramsey has used incredible skills and truths to drive that message home. He does NOT promote wise money management for the sole purpose of accumulating more wealth. Leaping to that conclusion because of the size of his home is very unfair. While I don’t agree with all of Ramsey’s advice and tactics (nor do I agree with all his theology), his overall basic message is a pretty good one that Christians would be wise to heed – (1) don’t spend more than you make and (2) be generous in giving (including and beyond tithing). As for judging his heart or soul by the market value of his house, you better tread lightly there. We’re all sinners and I think Jesus also said something about pointing to the speck in someone else’s eye. There are plenty of rich, poor, and middle-class people who give generously and even sacrificially, and lots more rich, poor, and middle-class people who hoard their resources.

    • You are correct, there is a distinction between money management and Christian stewardship and the task of the church is to teach stewardship. The church has NOT been assigned the job of making good money managers (that work belongs to others). Yet, all I am trying to say is that the church has essentially narrowly defined stewardship as good money management.

      I guess we will never know what Ramsey’s “sole purpose” is, but he has done a good job of getting rich from his work with the church.

      • Yes, and good stewardship sometimes doesn’t stand to common reason, just look at Noah.

      • JJS

        Terry, I respect your thoughts very much, but in this instance, it seems to me that you’re trying to put Christian stewardship in a vacuum, which I don’t really think is possible in real life. The parable about the 3 men with different talents (which absolutely is referring to money) suggests more than a narrowly defined stewardship, at least in my understanding of it. While this complex parable is too often used incorrectly, it seems to tacitly acknowledge that money is involved in virtually all of life – which is why I believe Holy Scripture talks so much about it – and God is very interested in what we’re doing with it. My point is that I feel Christian stewardship has a component that requires wise financial management of ALL the resources God has provided for us to use. They are HIS resources, whether we’re tithing them or paying utilities or college tuitions, or getting loans, etc. Just as “our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit” does not mean that every church should have exercise classes, it also doesn’t necessarily mean that doing so is wrong (although you and I would probably agree that there are way too many churches acting more like country clubs than there should be). In short, I just don’t find it in keeping with Christ’s view that we compartmentalize the Christian life. To the contrary, Christian principles and values should carry over to all parts of our lives, some with theological purpose, some with very practical purpose.

        As for Dave Ramsey, there’s no doubt he’s a “5-talent” guy. And while I have no knowledge of his personal finances, I suspect that he’s also used his wealth to benefit thousands of lives and to enhance God’s kingdom. He will have to answer to God, not to us, as to whether he met the requirements of one who had been given much. The scary thing for me is that I will too! But the great news for both of us, indeed for all of us, is that we’re saved by grace, not by our financial prowess.

  8. JJS I’m not sure we are disagreeing. My concern is that the church has made money management the totality of stewardship education. In my original article I pointed out three areas that are severely neglected in stewardship – environmentalism, accumulation, and responsibility to others. In addition, the extreme emphasis on money management focuses so much attention of how we handle our money that it leads to the failure in these areas. Money management tends to be self-focused, getting control of our finances, whereas stewardship is about letting go of control and living with an “open hand.”

  9. Terry, First let me say that honestly I am taken aback at your post. Since I read your post in it’s entirety, I hope that you will afford the same to myself. Thank you:
    I have three quick points or questions and a set of follow up comments. Not as an easy way out, in regard to not including some insightful statements or verses of scripture, but as some thoughts to ponder…
    1. Environment – In claims regarding the environment….Are we elvevating the environment over God first of all and over man and having dominon over it?
    2. Accumulation – Would we say the same statements to God that accumulated a land for the Hebrews?
    3. Responsibility – In a system that enables poverty through welfare and dependence on the governement: Should we elevate the government above God and his people to take care of the poor and the sick?
    As you can see I have tried to contain myself from any personal attacks, however I just have one problem with you personally. As a “Stewardship Professional (professional being emphasized)” in working with churches I would think you would be more practical and applicable. You yourself say that at one time “every stewardship item in the Southern Baptist world had my (your) fingerprint on it somewhere.” What is more applicable as far as stewardship goes than my personal finances and how I use them? Your arguement against this doesn’t make sense to me. If I’m going to be a good steward with what God has given me then that means my whole life not just my families personal finances. Yet, our finances touch a good portion of our lives. God hasn’t called me to give up the roof over my family’s head because I’m a good steward in that regard. So, I’ll leave that one to you. Thank you, brother. Wendel Elliott

  10. L Jackson

    We ran a Ramsey course in our local town and then had counsellors help attendees follow through on what they learned in Ramsey and found that when these people got out of debt on average their giving went up 26% now that is not a bad result. It sounds to me like you are more concerned about what kind of house Ramsey lives in than you are about the positive giving resulting from his course.

    • I couldn’t care any less about how Ramsey lives. My problem is that the church has made him the role model for Christian stewardship. If it is true that we will never progress beyond our leaders then the most we can hope is a culture of debt free excessive materialism.

      Also, I expect that God is more concerned with what we do with the stuff that is leftover after we give. Read Jesus’ statements about wealth and see if you can reconcile “Financial Peace” with His teachings.

  11. Dan

    I feel that poor money management is just a symptom of the problem. the problem is the lust of the flesh. We feel that the money we make is to be used for our own fulfillment. When we make it our life goal to advance God’s kingdom near and far through proclaiming the gospel message, our money management will improve greatly. We will stop spending our time and money on worthless and temporal things and invested in the kingdom.

    The problem I have with Dave Ramsey is that I do not see him teaching what the purpose of money is. He basically says if you have to go into debt to buy it, that’s stupid, but if you have the cash just buy it because you can afford it. He never asks if one really needs it? Will if advance the gospel around the world? Can I get a simpler, less expensive necessary item so that I can use the money saved to invest in the kingdom.

    The question I would like to ask, do we need a big screen tv, xbox, 4000 sq foot house, boat, motor home, two new cars, meals out every week, starbucks coffee and a garage so full of stuff we do not even know what we have and we go out and buy more of the same because we do not know we already own one and do not know where it is at. I think the answer is most likely that we do not need all this stuff and we have dragon sickness, love of money and stuff.

    Here is an easier question, Do people need Jesus? Yes! Should we be frugal and wise enough to save and invest every cent we can to help give people an opportunity to hear the gospel, yes!

    Philippians 3:8 What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ

    This verse is great teaching on christian stewardship! Dave Ramsey and churches around the world please teach it! It is Biblical, it is discipleship and it is truth!

  12. Jake Barbour

    Read Matthew 7:1-6 and Matthew 18:15-20. Do not judge and if you do take it to that person alone. Do not drivel on about it on the internet. If Terry Austin has not talked directly to Dave Ramsey he has no standing or authority to be writing about it on the internet (Hopefully he has). Satan loves it when we attack fellow believers. Who needs Satan when we attack ourselves over and over again. Who can bring a charge against God’s elect? The Christian community needs to be unified. They are lining our children up in the streets and shooting them in the head because they won’t denounce Christ and we are rambling on like the disciples did about who is the greatest or who knows best. One person sows, One person waters we all have different gifts. We must breathe life over each and everyone of us and not death.

  13. Josh

    Might want to check in more on Ramsey’s info as 1. He has multiple businesses that generate revenue…not just church stewardship. 2. He preaches AGAINST just building up stuff. Who cares if he has an incredible house!? This article sounds more jealous or just uninformed.

    • You might want to read my article a little closer. The subject is the church teaching that money management and getting out of debt has become the sum total of Christian stewardship. The reason is because of the popularity of Ramsey. In making Ramsey the authority in stewardship it is in direct contrast to Jesus’ lifestyle. This is the problem that is illustrated by Ramsey’s lifestyle.

      • Barak

        Terry You listed two verses without any context or explanation. Just reading those would make one think you are saying having money and place to lay are not good things. Jesus often borrowed places to lay or places to stay, from those who had it. He would eat food grown by someone else. To implement Jesus’ lifestyle should Christians literally just leave their homes and wander around teaching? Buy my book not Dave Ramsey’s

  14. Ben

    This article is incredibly unfair and appears to lack tether to reality. You are stating your emotional feelings as if they are fact. I think the majority of folks in the church have no idea what you are talking about. If I was going to imitate your approach I would suggest that you are just writing this click bait article to cash in the Dave Ramsey, tithing, and stewardship keywords.

  15. Jennifer Miller

    We live in a society that promotes consumerism. Christians struggle with contentment in Christ, finding themselves being suffocated by the debt they accrue. Ramsey introduced an idea in how to manage money and aid people, practically in getting out of debt.
    If people are looking at that as a wholistic view of stewardship I don’t believe that is Ramsey’s doing.
    Our churches are failing us if that is the case.
    We as humans need to take responsibility for ourselves. Read our bibles.
    If we are not giving, if we are not content and if we are controlled by worldiness and the “stuff” in it…
    That is not … A fellow humans problem. It’s ours.

  16. Prepare to be judged according to the way you have judged a man you do not know. I saw no mercy for Ramsey or your article or the benefit of the doubt. You could have made your point without ostracizing a specific person.

  17. I wish the Ramsey supporters would actually read the article before going nuts. The problem is not Ramsey. The problem is the church adopting a single issue as the totality of stewardship teaching. Ramsey has found a profitable niche and the church, perhaps seeking the same kind of profit, has joined him. Here is the statement I made in the article: “The real problem is that Christians have anointed Ramsey as the stewardship sage and essentially redefined stewardship teaching as good money management, or more narrowly as getting out of debt.”

    I really don’t think I even said anything critical of Ramsey. My concern is that the church has abandoned the majority of stewardship teaching and focused on one single aspect, one that Ramsey does well. However, getting out of debt and accumulating stuff has very little to do with biblical stewardship.

  18. Michael

    I’m not sure on why you wrote this article. It seems to me you’re criticising Dave Ramsey for buying a large home. He’s been teaching financial peace for many years now and if he wants to live in a nice home, then he should. He’s become very wealthy and he should have done this a long time ago. It seems that the point of the article is that money is evil and if you have too much, you are in danger of not going to heaven. How did our society come to believe that being wealthy is bad and a good Christian is poor. My lack of income does not strengthen my faith. I struggle financially but I am not jealous of the rich. One day I would like to move out of my apartment and buy a nice house but I now know that there will be people like you criticising me.

    • Please re-read the article. I do not criticize Ramsey for buying an extravagant home. My problem is with the church accepting this as good stewardship. Your final sentence illustrates my point very clearly. It seems that you would also like to have a nice house. I don’t have a problem with that, but that is not the goal of stewardship.

  19. Barak

    A short version of this article might read,

    “Don’t buy Dave Ramsey’s books. Buy my book.”

    How would you explain the wisest man in history, Solomon and the temple he built for the Lord? That was one of the most extravagant buildings ever seen lined with gold.

  20. Greg

    So now I guess we are suppose to your book and make you rich!! Lol

    • Greg, tell you what I will do. You click the link and buy the book. Read it. If you don’t think it is better than Ramsey’s book I will return your money. And, I’m not LOL. Enjoy

  21. Pingback: Phil Robertson and the Dissolution of Christian Evangelism | Intermission

  22. mark

    If you are telling everyone to reread your article…then everyone must be misreading it…if everyone is doing that then you did not communicate well and the issue is not in our misreading.

    You posted a pic of Ramsey’s house yet you say you don’t have an issue with that….then why did you post the pic?

    When you judge Ramsey don’t be surprised when you’re judge back…that is the meaning of Matthew 7ff.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s